“I’ve had enough”: Tuktoro founders get Carsten Maschmeyer mad at DHDL
Five million euros for a startup with just five hundred and six thousand euros in revenue. Given this valuation , the Tuktoro founders should have known from the start that they weren't in the right place with the investors from "The Lion's Den."
In the TV show, founders with significantly lower valuations and higher sales have already been sent home.
The deal you are proposing here is a disaster.
In an interview with Gründerszene , DHDL insider Ruth Cremer once explained that the valuations in the show are lower than in the real VC world.
Because the TV investors would offer the startups enormous added value as strategic financiers and can therefore demand more shares for less money.
But founders Elisha Benner and Andreas Häring were confident in their approach. They want to sell their dice math game called Tuktoro as a SaaS startup with recurring revenue. Carsten Maschmeyer finds this "completely bizarre and brazen."
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But the founders are trying to defend their multiple. They claim Tuktoro is more than just a "plastic toy," the market has "extremely high potential," potential customers are "storming their doors," and the customer lifetime value (CLV) is over €200. "It's full of buzzwords to impress investors," says Maschmeyer.
And a statement from the founders finally makes things worse. Benner and Häring have commissioned a study, they tell the show. "For the first time in human history, we can quantify education," Benner says of the study. "I've had enough, your buzzwords are great bait, I'm not going to swallow them, I'm out," Maschmeyer says, annoyed.
Basically, you are all business influencers.
Orthomol CEO Nils Glagau isn't fooled either. "I like cool founders, but this is a bit too cool for me. I've heard a lot of superlatives," he explains his departure.
When Tijen Onaran asked what exactly the Tuktoro founders hope to get from investors, other than their money, the answer is influencer marketing.
"Basically, you're all business influencers," says Benner. Onaran feels personally attacked by this statement and also withdraws, saying: "I'm primarily an entrepreneur and investor, and with that in mind, I look at your numbers and find the valuation far too high."
Janna Ensthaler and Ralf Dümmel are somewhat more relaxed. Both believe in the success of the Tuktoro product. Ensthaler's husband, with his venture capital firm 468 Capital, invested early in the audio speaker startup Tonies and supported it through to its IPO. Therefore, she could support the Tuktoro founders on their journey.
We have piqued interest among retailers and now we need to close the deals.
"I can do sales, I can do SaaS, I can do the things you're planning," said the Glossybox founder. But the deal the two are proposing is "a disaster."
Dümmel is the last hope. He believes he could open doors. The founders ignore Dümmel's suggestion that a deal could be negotiated again.
In a TV interview after the performance , the founders said they would have been willing to lower their valuation to as little as €3.5 million. They had hoped the Lions would counter with a counteroffer. However, the Lions were put off by the fact that the founders left no room for a counteroffer.
It was the first time the founders stood in front of a TV camera, they told Gründerszene afterwards.
"It was just the two of us in the studio with Sophie, and afterward, we couldn't really remember everything because it was so exciting. Since we were naturally very nervous, we came up with better answers afterward. Overall, though, it was an extremely exciting and positive experience," say the founders.
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The lions didn't invest, but the Tuktoro founders still received money. As part of their pre-seed financing, A2Zebra, the company behind Tuktoro , raised half a million euros in convertible loans from business angels until April 2024. Among them are the two Tonies founders Patric Faßbender and Marcus Stahl, and Tonies Tech VP Sebastian Heide-Meyer zu Erpen.
The financing was likely completed around the time of the DHDL recording. The two founders didn't mention this on the show. In addition to Benner and Häring, the founding team also includes industrial designer Justyna Zubrycka and designer Patrick Goehl.
"We're fully focused on families as our target group. We're open to schools and learning institutions, but we can't tailor our model specifically to them. Perhaps that will come at a later date," the Tuktoro founders told Gründerszene.
In an interview with Gründerszene in April 2024, they stated that they were in further financing discussions. Their next round is expected to bring in around three million euros. The Berlin startup will need the money primarily for the further development of its product. The founders, together with a learning therapist, said at the time that they had developed 15 learning games so far, with more to come.
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